Monday, 10 February 2025

IAN CURTIS & HIS HYPNOSIS TAPE (4th May 1980)


Two weeks before his untimely death Ian Curtis is transported back in time to his early childhood, then to the period of new-born, and finally until the period before his birth. We learned that he was an English lawyer named John, and he lived at home with his wife. In the next part, Curtis, transported back to 1830, reveals that he was a book merchant working for the Hayman Company in the suburbs of London. Further withdrawn, he found himself in prison in France in 1642 or 3 (HERE). In the next part further going back in time takes us to a hospital in France. Curtis has about 50 years. He talks about the wounds he sustained during the fighting. Finally Curtis is in an abbey, shortly after Christ's death. Bandmate Bernard Sumner conducted the session and taped it in his home with Ian. 

In Bernard Sumner's book New Order, Joy Division and I, the guitarist presented for the first time a full transcript of Ian Curtis' hypnotic sessions. Since the record is very long, it will be presented on the blog in parts. Today the introduction with which Sumner provided the transcript, and the first part covering the early childhood years of the Joy Division singer. This is the first FULL translation of these records on the web. At the time Ian was diagnosed with epilepsy, I was reading a book on hypnotic regression. It described how regression therapy could be used to get patients out of past life problems that are causing problems in the present, and I thought it was worth a try. It can be a good song, or maybe something more. As children on Alfred Street, we experimented with hypnosis, and we thought there was something to it, intrigued by the possibilities, I tried hypnosis on several people. They talked about things from the past. The first time I tried to do this was with Ian when we were bored after rehearsals. He came with some band that sounded interesting, but I don't remember what they were singing about.
 hypnosis transcription. We publish records that will never were published in our la

When he was in my house a few weeks before he died, we got up late and talked about everything and nothing. One night I said: We should try hypnotic regression again, but maybe now we can record so you can listen to how it will be after? He was in favor, so I put him in this state (he was easily hypnotized) and recorded everything. I'd never done it with the same person before, and it was interesting that Ian said exactly the same thing as he did in the rehearsal room. The full transcription of these tapes, which I have to this day, has never been published before. Here is what he said:

IC:... the road I was on
BS: What's the name of your colleague?
IC: Tony
BS: What does it look like?
IC: (coughs) he seems to have.. light hair
BS: What are you doing there?
IC: I sat down... I sat down on the curb. I have lollipop sticks, or some sticks, I dig as if I was making scratches in... roadway, No grass, sort of.. moss, green moss on top. I dig it out from between the curb.
BS: Are there any cars on the street?
IC: Somewhere deep down the road
BS: Do you know what color they are?
IC: Dark Blue
BS: What do the houses look like?
IC: All the same
BS: Do they have gardens?
IC: Yes
BS: How old are you?
IC: Five
BS: Do you know what day it is today?
IC: Yes, on the fifteenth of July
BS: Relax, sleep, you're safe, listen to my voice... Fear not. Go back in time when you were three years old. What do you see?
IC: My aunt in the garden, my grandfather is there too
BS: What's your aunt's name?
IC: Nell  
BS: What are you doing there?
IC: Playing, they sat in the garden, they have a dog
BS: What does a dog look like?
IC: He has a lot of hair around his eyes. It looks the same from the back as it does from the front.
BS: Is your aunt in the garden with you?
IC: Yes, and my uncle, dad and mom
BS: Did you come to visit?
IC: Yes
BS: Do you like your aunt?
IC: Yes
BS: Do you see yourself?
IC: Yes
BS: What do you look like?
IC: Small and fat with a round face, not fat but chubby, plump my mom says.
BS: Your mom says you're plump?
IC: Yes, all of them... yes not rather, you know... I suppose so
BS: Try to sleep, remember that you are three years old... Understand? Now sleep, don't pay attention to any noises, Wait, sleep, rest, relax and sleep. You are completely safe. I would like you to go back to when you are two years old, remember what you remember?
IC: I'm sitting on the carpet at home...
BS: At mom's or dad's house?
IC: Yes
BS: Can you describe this house?
IC: Yes, there's a coal fireplace and some weird metal stuff, I think they're used to light the fireplace, I don't know if it works, it's possible it's broken. There are two armchairs and a sofa. TV, rug and carpet, rug is red carpet beige.
BS: What is the color of the wallpaper?
IC: S-shaped pattern, golden. There is a table, a wardrobe under the window, two windows facing each other, brown tiles at the edge of the carpet.
BS: Do you know what day it is? Can you specify a date?
IC: E... no
BS: How old are you?
IC: Two

Bernard Sumner's introduction from his book, in which he described in detail hypnotic sessions with Ian Curtis, and the first part of the hypnosis transcription were posted HERE. It is worth noting that this is the FIRST Polish translation of the full recording of hypnosis.

BS: You're two years old, and I want you to go back to the age when you're only one year old. Anything, but at the age of a year.
IC: Only.....
ceiling BS: Ceiling?
IC: In mom and dad's
bedroom, BS: Are your parents there?
IC: No. There's only Grandma
BS: Your grandmother?
IC: Mm, he's looking at me
BS: Are you lying lower?
IC: Yes
BS: Is it in bed?
IC: Yes, I think
BS: Do you see anything on the ceiling?
IC: [answer hard to hear]
BS: Can you see the wall?
IC: Mm
BS: Describe what is in between?
IC: I don't know, it's white... I don't reach that
BS: Can you describe yourself?
IC: Mmm.. simply.. I can't, I can't see myself... tired
BS: Sluggish
IC: Mmm
BS: Just relax and listen to my voice. Fall asleep, but listen to my voice. I want to take you back to the time before you were born. Before you were born. Tell me, what is the first image you saw?
IC: BS Trees
: IC Trees
: Lots of BS Trees
: Relax. I promise you're safe. I want you to be completely relaxed and tell me what you see.
IC: Trees all around
BS: Is this a forest?
IC: I think
BS: Do you know this place?
IC: No
BS: Are there any people there?
IC: No, only me
BS: Do you know why you are there?
IC: Mmm
BS: Think carefully, we have time
IC: I feel tired, my legs are tired, like I've been walking for a very long time. I don't think I...
BS: Are you coming from some other place?
IC: Yes
BS: Do you remember where from?
IC: Ah.. from home, I think I'm
lost. OK, relax. Go even further back in time, to even earlier memories. You are safe, just relax. Go back to your earlier memories and tell me what you see?
IC:..... Sat.... BS
: Where did you sit?
IC: Just...
BS: Where is the house? What do you see?
IC: Just reading
BS: What do you read?
IC: A book... is a book about... BS Law
: Legal?
IC: Yes
BS: In what language is it written?
IC: BS
: Do you know how old you are?
IC: Yes, twenty-eight
BS: Twenty-eight? MCan you tell me again?
IC: Twenty-eight
BS: Why do you read a law book?
IC: I'm reading it.... For many days... I read in fragments and take notes... I keep them
BS: Why? Is it part of your job? Or something else?
IC: Something else, I do it at
night BS: Now it's night?
IC: Yes
BS: Is the room bright?
IC: Yes
BS: Describe it for me
IC: Brightness shines from the fireplace. I'm close to the fireplace [unintelligible]
BS: Do you live alone?
IC: No
BS: Who lives with you?
IC: I'm married
BS: What's her name?
IC: [unintelligible]
BS: What's your name?
IC: John
BS: Excuse me, how?
IC: John
BS: And the name?
IC: [silence]
BS: Do you live in England?
IC:.... BS
: What else do you see?
IC: I see... darkness. What do I see outside the window?
BS: Yes
IC: The street downstairs

BS: I want you to move on to the next day now. It's daytime. What do you see now?
IC: A lot of people around
BS: How are they dressed? Choose one person and describe how they are dressed?
IC: Shirt... or rather a coat, pants, ... boots....
BS hat: What type of hat?
IC: Not too high
BS: Is there any name for this type of hats?
IC: I think so, but... I'm not sure, I've never worn... I'm not sure
BS: How do the people you see through the window travel?
IC: By
train BS: And what else besides walking?
IC: Train
BS: A train, and how does it move?
IC: On wheels, it's
towed BS: But how is it towed?
IC: Konno
BS: Do you know the date?
IC: The date?.... It's April
BS: What year?
IC: April... April
BS: What year?
IC: 1835
BS: Say it out loud
IC: 1835
BS: 1835, so you work?
IC: Yes
BS: What is your position, in what job?
IC: I just work in an office
BS: What type of office is it? What type of business is it?
IC: Delivering books to shops, schools... mainly to BS stores
: Do you like reading?
IC: Yes, yes... but I don't like
work BS: Why don't you like it?
IC: It doesn't seem to give.. it doesn't.. it's a small business and here is the whole family
BS: What is the name of this company?
IC: Heyman
BS: Heyman? In which city is it based?
IC: London
BS: Are you in this city now?
IC: No
BS: Do you work in this city?
IC: Yes
BS: You work in London. What street is it on... The office you work in?
IC: (whispering) the street...
BS: What is the name of this street?
IC: It's not the main street, it's.... with difficulty... is beyond.... outside the building complex. Opened... how open... BS
: Is it next to a main street?
IC: Mmmm
BS: What area of London is this?
IC: Right on the outskirts of the city
BS: On the outskirts of the city
IC: Westminster
BS: Have you been living in London all the time?
IC: No
BS: And where?
IC: My parentsthey shy... briefly at Southampton
BS: Did you like that?
IC: No. ships, the wharf...
BS: What made you in London?
IC: Good job
BS: How old were you when you moved to London?
IC: 19
BS: And how much when did you get married?
IC: 20....22....


Ian Curtis is transported back in time to early childhood, then to the period of newborn, and finally until the time before its birth. We learned that he was an English lawyer named John, and He lived at home with his wife. In the next part, Curtis, transported back to 1830, reveals that he was a book merchant working for the Hayman Company in the suburbs of London.

We publish records that have never been were published in our language.

BS: OK, now let's go back in time. Further and further in your memory, but do not be afraid. It's all simple, just relax. Relax and let it come. Deepen your sleep, and go back in time, even further and further. Just listen to my voice. Where are you now?
IC: In the BS room
: What does this room look like?

IC: Completely empty... The door is locked.... window high
BS: What's your name?
IC: It's just...
BS: What is that name?
IC: Justin
BS: Speak up
IC: Justin
BS: Justin. What nationality are you?
IC: I was born.... in England. But.... when I was very little... my parents moved to the Netherlands
BS: How old are you?
IC: Forty....
BS: Forty how much?
IC: nine.. or maybe 48. I'm not sure, I forgot....
BS: Do you know what year it is?
IC: One thousand six hundred... fortieth.... third or second, which is a year earlier
BS: Say louder
IC: 1643 or maybe 2 I don't know
BS: What are you doing in the room you are in?
IC: I'm
waiting BS: For whom?
IC: To no one, I'm stuck here for good - there's no way out
BS: Why are you there?
IC: No.... I believe or should I.... Crimes.... mistakenly committed in the first place. War....
BS: Were you wrongly accused of the crime you committed?
IC:..... I fought.... on the wrong side
BS: Did you fight on the wrong side?
IC: Yes
BS: Is it in war?
IC: answers vaguely
BS: Battle?
IC: Answers vaguely
BS: What was the fight about?
IC:... always the same... fighting for anything... that is... BS
: You mean money?
IC: No... about anything... Values...
BS: Who have you been fighting for lately? What were the reasons?
IC: I don't remember anything else. It was useless.
BS: Why
IC: Because nothing has changed BS
: How old are you?
IC: 48 - 49
BS: How long have you been in captivity?
IC: At least 4 years, maybe longer?
BS: Rest, because now I want us to go back another 10 years in time. The same person, but 10 years earlier. What do you see?
IC: Nothing
BS: Nothing? Nothing at all?
IC: Nothing
BS: Okay, that's maybe five years since you were in the room
IC: Nothing, I don't see
anything BS: OK, go back to the room and let's go back a year. What do you see?
IC: Just room
BS: What do you feel?
IC: I could say...
cold BS: Is this room in England?
IC: No
BS: And where?
IC: In France
, BS: Is it winter or summer?
IC: It's winter, everything... Cold. Not Summer
BS: Are you talking to someone?
IC: No
BS: What about those who bring you meals?
IC: They just put them in... they open the door... they put it behind the door...
BS: How are these people dressed?
IC: I don't know... just wearing normal stuff
BS: What do you mean by "normal"?
IC: Pants, shoes...
BS: What are you wearing?
IC: Sort of... jacket, very thin...
BS: Are you tall or short?
IC: Rather high
BS: What color is your hair?
IC: Dark, black.... jet black.


Ian Curtis is transported back in time to early childhood, then to the period of newborn, and finally until the period before its birth. We learned that he was an English lawyer named John, and He lived at home with his wife.

In the next part, Curtis goes back to 1830 and reveals that he was a book dealer working for the Hayman Company in the suburbs of London. Pushed back, he found himself in prison in France in 1642 or 3


BS: Now a year ahead in time, one year, relax and say, what do you see?
IC: Walls BS
: Are you in the same place as before? Where are you?
IC: In the room... It looks the same... But there's a different smell here... the smell is different
BS: What does it smell like?
IC: I... I do not know...
BS: Are there any other people there?
IC: Yes
BS: Do you know why you were put there?
IC: I think I had... BS fever
: Is this the hospital, the place where you are? A hospital for the sick?
IC: There are other people here... fever...
BS: What language do they speak?
IC: In French
BS: Do you know this language?
IC: No... I can, I know how to listen... and I can understand a lot...
BS: And what language do you speak?
IC: English is the language I use
BS: How old are you?
IC: Um... 50.......51?..... I don't know
anything else BS: So you were imprisoned in France, do you know where? Any region?
IC: I...
Lion BS: Lion?
IC: Mmmm
BS: Is it for fighting against France?
IC: [quiet]... yes
BS: When you fought, what weapons did you use?
IC: We used... [quietly] .. BS: What kind of
swords?
IC: Swords... Kling... Pistols...
BS: Were you injured during the fight?
IC: Yes
BS: Where?
IC: Which one
?
IC: Twice to the right, once to the left... and.... cuts on both arms... on both sides... both healed BS
: In what battle?
IC: It was in... France... and in... in Spain... and... these were not battles, but fights
BS: Fights? What army did you fight in?
IC: Sometimes. Spanish... Where our armies were brought... together... to fight...
BS: Was the family you came from famous?
IC: No... no...
BS: What was her name?
IC:... no, no, poor thing, I think...
BS: What was her name?
IC: Father is... an Englishman... to Cheacott
BS: How?
IC: Cheacott
BS: A glass of tea (teacott)?
IC: My mother was from Flanders
, BS: From Flanders?
IC: Mm. I don't remember her maiden name. Seems.. a very long time ago... a long time since...
BS: Relax. Listen only to my voice, no other sounds, only my voice.


In the next part, Curtis goes back to 1830 and reveals that he was a book dealer working for the Hayman Company in the suburbs of London. Further withdrawn, he found himself in prison in France in 1642 or 3 (HERE). In the next part (HERE), further going back in time takes us to a hospital in France. Curtis is about 50 years old. He talks about the wounds he sustained during the fighting.

We publish records that will never were published in our language.


BS: What's your name?
IC: Justin
BS: Justin, is there a memory from your life that stands out in any way?
IC: Friends, people, good friends...
BS: Have you ever had a profession?
IC: No, from a
very, very early youth BS: So where did you get your income from?
IC: It seems that I saved.... Needed... high earnings. However, lodgings, meals, I always got.
BS: Why did they provide them?
IC: Mercenary
services BS: Have you rented them? What services, what for?
IC: Trained... soldier
BS: How do you feel?
IC: Very weak?
BS: Why weak?
IC: I'm feverish, very hot. Very... I give up on this
BS: What are you giving up?
IC: It's over, it's easy, I
suppose BS: The end of your life? Can you say you've had a good life?
IC: Not for me to
judge BS: And to whom?
IC: To God
BS: OK, I want to move you forward a day now – to the day you died. Relax, because I don't want you to get hurt. Do not worry. What do you feel?
IC: Heat
BS: What?
IC: Hot, burn
BS: What's going on in your mind?
IC: Backwards and forwards
BS: What do you mean?
IC: I'm going to... to meet God. I don't want to go back to... Room. To die here... seems to be the finale BS
: Are you afraid?
IC: No
BS: I want you to go back to the moment after you died. Tell me what you see, or what do you feel?
IC: It's just... emptiness, nothing
BS: Don't you see anything?
IC: No
BS: Do you feel anything?
IC: (muttering)
BS: Do you still exist?
IC: (mumbling)
BS: Whatever, rest, relax, and go further back in time. Until the next memories, nothing threatens you. What do you see?IC: The Church
BS: The Church? What year is it?
IC: Nine hundred... four years after Christ's
death: What do you do in church?
IC: I am... as if you were a
priest BS: What is your name?
IC: C - I can't say. It's very...
BS: Relax and wait for your mind to clear. Wait for the vision and then tell me what you see
IC: Only the church
BS: Nothing more?
IC: Somewhere in the village, grass, it's big, it's in seclusion, golden, dirty windows, walls around, there's a big
BS: What are you wearing?
IC: I can't.... I'm outside the church
BS: Do you know who you are?
IC: No, only a building, an abbey
BS: Are you a priest there?
IC: I'm not sure, I just live here


Ian Curtis is transported back in time to early childhood, then to the period of newborn, and finally until the period before its birth. We learned that he was an English lawyer named John, and He lived at home with his wife.

In the next part, Curtis, transported back to 1830, reveals that he was a book merchant working for the Hayman Company in the suburbs of London. Further withdrawn, he found himself in prison in France in 1642 or 3 (HERE). In the next part (HERE) further going back in time takes us to a hospital in FranceCurtis has about 50 years. He talks about the wounds he sustained during the fighting. In part 6 (HERE), Curtis is in an abbey, shortly after Christ's death. Today the last part of the hypnosis transcription.

We publish records that will never were published in our language.

BS: It doesn't matter, sink deeper, deeper into sleep. Don't worry about anything. Now we will go back in time even more, to another group of memories. Tell me what you see? Concentrate, concentrate.
IC: Uh, I see, something unrelated.
BS: Unrelated huh?
IC: Just images. I can't...
BS: Whatever, don't worry. Try to explain what you feel when you look at these IC images
: A man is hiking on a hill. And I see a field with many dead bodies
BS: Dead?
IC: But they are not... It doesn't look like the same part of the country, the countryside
BS: What do you mean by that?
IC: [quietly] I can't...
BS: How do you feel? ... What time is it?
IC: I don't know?
BS: You don't know what this memory is associated with?
IC: No, BS
: And why there? Don't you know?
IC: No
BS: So there are fields out there... Describe it again, IC again
: Someone is walking over a hill, sunny, and there is a field with many dead people.
BS: Are bodies in blood?
IC: The red one is flowing... BS
: Was it caused by this man?
IC: No
BS: Do you see yourself?
IC: No
BS: Do you see your feet when you look down?
IC: No
BS: Can you touch yourself?
IC: No
BS: Does the field look realistic?
IC: Yes
BS: Can you smell the grass? Just take a look. OK, relax and listen to my voice. Understand? Can you hear me?
IC: [muttering]
BS: I want you to go forward in time, to 1980, do you know who you are now?
IC: Yes
BS: What's your name?
IC: Ian
BS: Do you remember what we talked about, what I said to you?
IC: Fragments of
BS: And something about others, any visions, memories?
IC: I remember
BS: And what?
IC: We talked about when I was little
BS: But not about what we had before?
IC: I remember looking at some pictures of
BS: What?
IC: The man on the hill, the massacre, the .. battle or something like that
. BS: Recognize my voice. I want to remind you to wake you up gradually, okay?
IC: Yes
BS: Okay, also remember that
IC: Yes
BS: Remember everything and now open your eyes and get up
IC: Yes
BS: So I want you to open your eyes and get up. You're relaxed, wake up, wake up completely. Don't fall asleep, don't fall asleep, can you hear me?
IC: Yes
BS: Sit down, how do you feel?
IC: Good
BS: Do you remember anything?
IC: I felt like I was asleep, I remember being in the room, I don't know why I was
there, BS: Do you remember what you felt when you were there?
IC: Not a very pleasant smell. I shouldn't have been
there BS: Do you feel like you're completely awake?
IC: Yes... I remember this character walking on the hill
BS: Anything more about this hill?
IC: I don't know, he just went down
BS: Did you see the massacre? Body? Did you feel like you were dreaming?
IC: Yes, I feel like I woke up in the morning... there are only pieces... just pieces...
BS: How long do you think you have been away?
IC: 10 minutes? 20 minutes... half an hour?
BS: You were not around the hour
IC: An hour?
BS: Maybe even an hour and a quarter of
IC: [unintelligible]
BS: I have interesting material, everything here
IC: So let's
listen to BS: What?
All