*You have written some incredible books on British music
and their cultural impact, what gave you the idea for your new book?
It’s bringing together two of my passions: music and study of the Third
Reich. In many ways, the book has been brewing
in my mind since I was a young boy. I loved the Sex Pistols and found
humour in ‘Belsen Was A Gas’ and Sid Vicious wearing a swastika T-shirt. At the
same time, I was learning about the persecution of Europe’s Jews under the Nazi party leading to the
Holocaust. Wrestling with that contradiction, of music and history, has
ultimately lead to this book.
*You've obviously done a lot of research, what was the
starting point for this project?
I’ve always read about the Holocaust, Hitler and the Nazi party. I read Mein
Kampf in my late-teens – its almost impenetrable. Also watching many, many
films. So that part of the research is very much just part of my life. The
starting point was really exploring what artists said about their engagement
with the Third Reich. So, memoirs, the music press, documentaries.
*What stage craft tricks do you think Hitler used to
hypnotize the masses?
Many historians, witnesses, say Hitler was a master orator. He would start
slowly, then build up into a frenzy. The
staging was the brilliance of Albert Speer’s theatrical mind. Searchlights
searing into the sky. Beautiful stone abutments. Massive golden eagles. Flags
and banners draped at intervals. Much of this is captured in Leni Riefenstahl’s
film of the Nuremburg rally - a key
source of inspiration for many artists from Bowie to Bryan Ferry to Lemmy.
*Bowie really appreciated Hitler's power to transfix an
audience, how do you think this impacted Bowie's stagecraft and Thin White Duke
persona?
Bowie was absorbed by the Third Reich. He had a Nazi memorabilia
collection. He was going to write a play / film about Goebbels. Much of it was
from an Arthurian legend point of view, the Holy Grail. Henrich Himmler
followed a similar path to justify the supposed superiority of the ‘Aryan’
race. And justification for the SS and, by default, Nazism. Bowie certainly indulged
in this, perhaps cocaine influenced, but his interest spans more than ten
years. Fortunately, he had the good grace to explain, if not excuse, his
behaviour.
*Nazi iconography really hit a nerve with the 70's punk
rock movement's, in what way did this impact their sensibilities?
The swastika has become synonymous with punk. But it is largely
unaccountable. Many artists divorced Third Reich theatricality from the
atrocities the state was responsible for. The Clash spoke against fascism.
Their managers – Caroline Coon and Bernie Rhodes – refused to accept the
swastika. Rhodes broke with Malcolm McLarren over it. Very soon, Sniffin
Glue and Ripped & Torn fanzines challenged punks about wearing the
Nazi emblem.
*What do you want people to understand from reading your
book?
That musicians, the media, the music industry and fans have a
responsibility to history to the indulgence of the Third Reich for creative
purposes. Ideologically Nazism is intrinsically linked to a hatred and
persecution of Jewish people. In the modern world, there is an awakening to
racism and misogyny. Nazism must be part of this. We cannot change the past.
But we can affect the present.
*For you, what was the biggest surprise that you
uncovered during your research?
The extent of Third Reich and Nazis influence in music. Punk was just one
time when the swastika was used. The story spans from the Beatles to Lady Gaga
to Kanye West to Roger Waters.
*Im not talking about the Nazi's racist message, but what
do you think is the key to Nazi rhetoric that some of these musicians used in
their work and connected with them? Was it a state of mind they tried to put
their audience in?
Nazism was designed to be powerful. To be sexually attractive. To
instil fear. Language, sexuality, imagery, the uniforms, menace was built into
the theatrical spectacle. There’s a clear line connecting these concepts with
rock stardom. Likewise, audiences succumb to or are seduced by these elements
of a rock concert. Fascism is highly
skilled in seduction. A civilised nation, Germany, fell for it as a nation in
the 1930s. We see similar patterns repeating in history today.
*What are you planning to work on in the future?
Co-curating a massive immersive exhibition on the 90s for 2026!
